Railroad Pocket Watches - What to look for

These days the idea of a railroad grade or approved pocket watch has been confusing to some people.  There are so many people who use the term to identify any pocket watch they think is a RR watch but in reality are far from it.  This can be because a seller wants to make a watch sound better than it is or just simply because they don't know how to identify a real railroad pocket watch.  I hope the majority is just because of a lack of education on the topic.

The requirements needed of a railroad watch changed over time.  In the beginning the railroads had no real standards.  This had some very disastrous results due to watches gaining or losing time and when your industry depends on time tables you need accuracy.  The early standards allowed 18 size watches with 15 jewels to be used.  After a time the minimum became 17 jewels and 18 or 16 size.  Eventually all 18 size watches were no longer allowed in service.  This may have been more to do with fashion as you can get the same accuracy from a larger watch as you can from the smaller.

This 18 size Illinois A Lincoln 21 Jewel 5 Adj would have been a RR watch prior to the change to only 16 size.

Hampden John Hancock 21 Jewel 18 Size (if this was a Open Face)

Rockford 21 Jewel 18 Size

Elgin Father Time 21 Jewel 18 Size

In the American RR industry there was a focus on only allowing American made watches.  This was mainly due to the fact that the American watch industry had the highest standards at the time and had the biggest sway on the market. This was obviously lost over time as can be seen from the current watch market where the dominance is Swiss, Japanese, and Chinese watch makers.  Our industry essentially died in the 1960's.  Every watch industry that gains the top spot feels it will last forever and do things that cause their own demise.

Once you get into the time of the 16 size requirement you do see some of the most iconic of the railroad watches.  These are the watches collectors recognize instantly as a railroad grad pocket watch and already know the quality to expect.  Most of these were 21 jewel 16 size open face with winding at 12 and lever set.  They were all adjusted to temperature, isochronism, and positions.

Hamilton 992 21 jewel 16 size (early) single roller

Notice the lack of the 992 or double roller markings

Hamilton 992 21 jewel 16 size double roller

Hamilton 992B 21 jewel 16 size with melamine dial and stainless case

Waltham Crescent St 21 jewel 16 size  

Illinois Bunn Special 21 jewel 16 size

Elgin BW Raymond 21 jewel 16 size Invar Balance

Waltham Vanguard 23 jewel 16 size 

The Canadian railways had a different standard.  There you can find many high quality Swiss watches being put into service along side the American watches.  They had a much less protectionist attitude to the origin country then the US had.  It is possible for there to be Canadian railroad watches that would have easily met the US requirements but were just not allowed because they were Swiss.  

Elco Traintimer (Recta BD1) 21 jewel 16 size Lever Set Adj 6 Positions

If I were to sum up what to look for in a good railroad watch is that it needs the following:

• 19-23+ Jewels
• Lever Set
• Open Face
• Winds at 12
• 16 Size
• Micrometric Regulator (Pat Regulator)
• Bold Arabic Number Dial
• Adjusted 

I am not saying it has to be Swiss or American but you can consider that based on your collecting choice.  There are a few times where this list would not relate to a railroad grade watch but on the whole you should almost always end up with one.  

Below is an example of what is not a railroad watch...

Elgin 7 jewel 16 size pendant set

The self sufficient collector

I learned a lesson today about being a self sufficient collector.  For those unfamiliar with the term, it is using your knowledge and experience in a hobby to buy and sell so that you can buy to keep.  A good example is picking up a nice condition Hamilton 992b for $50 and flipping it for $200.  Take that $150 profit and follow the same process a few more times then buy a watch to keep.

I managed to follow this process to buy an Omega Aqua Terra 150M co-axial chronometer chronograph.  I had to find extra links for it but I could never have done it without the buy sell buy keep process.  I have done this to get a few of my better watches.  It is the best way to collect on a limited budget.

So as to the lesson, I was trying told to move my sales posts on watchuseek to the dealer sales forum instead of the private sellers forum.  Mind you I have been a member 6 years and post in other threads other than just selling.  In fact a nice reader joined the forum just because of my Joseph Johnson post here.  But they deem it necessary to make me post in a dealer sales forum because their opinion is that I am doing it as a business.

I follow the rules and a mod takes it to form an opinion about who I am.  The move is to allow people who only occasionally sell to be more visible.  This is a laugh as many buyers use WatchRecon to find the watches posted than paging through their sales forum.  It gives you the ability to see sales posts on multiple forums.  Great sight, check it out, just Google WatchRecon.

So I have been labeled a dealer.  I have been told my post quality is not there to make them think that I am there for anything other than selling and I use the forum to essentially mine for information. I'm sorry but any minor information the members have given was just an addition to what I already knew.  25+ years of collecting gives you a rather good knowledge base.

Most of my posts here have been a copy of what I posted on the forum.  You can judge for yourself if I am mining for info for just selling for profit.  So I will be trying the TimeZone forum for a bit.  Many ex forum members with dissolutions about how the forum was has moved there.  Ever since Earnie sold thing have gone less as well as they were and that was called "progress".  Whatever.....

Hacking 1850 Joseph Johnson Liverpool

A local coin shop had this one on hand. It came in with 2 other watches. The others are ok but not remarkable in rarity. A 15 jewel HC US Watch Co Waltham 18s lever set and a 23 jewel 16s lever set Waltham on an OF case. Those were a no brainer purchase based on his pricing. The 3rd watch I had to think over. Not a cheap watch by a reasonable collectors standard and I don't plop cash down randomly. 

I tried to do as much research as possible on this one. It is a 18k fully jeweled Joseph Johnson from 1850 (per the hallmarks). When I first looked at it my biggest concern was the potential that it needed repair. The missing second hand was obvious but the function of the movement was priority. A gentle rock and watching the lever and escapement gave me my answer. The wheel turned and the lever engaged. Balance swings freely so no issue there. He had no key and neither did I so the mainspring condition was a mystery. He named his price and based on the gold content and weight we both know he was under scrap.

He explained that he knew it was too nice to scrap out and would rather make a little profit then destroy it for just a bit more money. This the the kind of coin shop I like the most! So I left without it because I needed to research. I found some posts on NAWCC and auctions and think there are some gaps in info out there. 

Joseph Johnson of Liverpool started watchmaking in 1895 around the age of 15. He apparently only lived to about 45. He, in my opinion, made some very nice movements. Most seem to be fully jeweled with Liverpool windows. By the fact his children had the same name so good chance is that they carried on with the company up until the early 1860's.

My example even has a jeweled English lever. So my estimates are 16 to 17 jewels. This one, along with many, has diamond endstones. The balances on the ones I have seen vary. I have seen solid gold, steel, bimetallic with a blued steel center, a uncut bimetallic with screws, and then mine which is a cut bimetallic with screws. So there appear to be 5 different balances in use over 60 years and they almost seem to follow a natural progression in technology. 

All are gilt, fusee, and full plate movements. The click and pawl as seen on mine seems to only be used sparingly. One feature mine has that I think many miss looking at these is the "hack" lever. These are hacking pocket watches made prior to 1860 and I would say this feature was put on the better end of their movements. 

A quick search of ebay shows orphaned and parts movements that have this function. We know that most of these movements are only in this state after their cases were scrapped. Most likely these were heavy 18k as it appears that when Johnson cased in gold it was 18k.

Joseph Johnson watches were used on the American railroads prior to the establishment of the standards and in a time that English watch making was at its best. You can see some of the elements that correspond to what the American watch industry would put into the iconic American railroads watches. Full jewel, split bimetallic screwed balance, and lever escapement. You also see the diamond endstones make their way into the higher end 21 and up American watches. 

So without further babbling by me here are the first group I took after just getting it.






Picture of the hack lever at 5. Another is further down as well.














These are after I got it home and cleaned and oiled it. The case came up very nice. I did manage to rummage up a second hand of the right length but the pivot hole was too small. I used my staking set to broach out the pivot hole but it came up jut a hair too big so I crimped it back down just a bit. I would love to get a matching hand set for the watch but at the moment that is just a pipe dream.





















I used a polishing cloth and and cape cod on the case
.

My First Vacheron

I was set up at a local antique show and managed to snag this off another antique dealer. The dial does not suffer from chips or cracks which is great considering it looks like it saw lots of use.

Serial dates it between 1915 and 1920. The watch is a contract watch for the US Army Corps of Engineers. The contract ran from 1918 to 1920 for 5000 watches. From what I have found on line they delivered under 4000 of them and the large majority was for the single button chronograph.

As far as I can find the watch is 100% original and unmodified. I am interested in finding out more about the number on the back. I feel that there is some discrepancy in how the watches are numbered. While I understand there was a 5000 watch contract with V&C for Corps of Engineer watches there appears to be a letter requesting "half chronometer" watches from V&C in the total of 2000 as well. The letter states that they are to be numbered 10,351 up to 12,350. If the numbers on the cases on the image below are scrutinized there are cases marked with the same "property of Corps of Engineers USA" between 10,986 to 12,51X that are not V&C time only watches.

Would the US Army request multiple companies to use the same numbers on multiple watches of multiple makes and functions? If these numbers were used to record the issue of a watch then you could have 5+ people with the same watch number. This seems very poorly recorded and tracked on the part of the US Army. 

The watch needed some external and internal gentle cleaning. Ticking away happily on my desk.